Is lying okay if you warn people first?

Let me get this straight.

  1. McCain announces that he will begin personal attacks on Obama.
  2. McCain then makes good on that promise.
  3. Obama then accuses McCain of smears.
  4. McCain says they are all “true facts” (as opposed to “misleading facts,” or “true lies,” or just “lies”).
Was the McCain strategy (or tactic? I obviously don’t know the difference) to tell us in advance that he was going to be throwing mud so we wouldn’t be so disgusted when it happened?
For those who “just can’t vote for Obama” for whatever reason, you have my condolences that McCain is your only other viable option.

10/7 UPDATE: Obama throws back a few whoppers of his own. I’m going to go crawl into a hole. Are we all just resigned to the fact that our leaders are dishonest?

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About shenpa warrior

"Patience is not learned in safety." View all posts by shenpa warrior

16 responses to “Is lying okay if you warn people first?

  • Salt H2O

    When looking at a presidential candidate I look at him/her as a job applicant.

    I don’t care about commericals, rhetoric or soundbites- it’s about what’s on their resume.

    We have two candidates- one has a resume the other has promises. I’ve never gotten a job because of what I promised to do. It’s all about what I’ve done.

    People want to vote for Obama because he can create change my question is “on what grounds do you believe that?”

  • adam

    Good points. Looking at McCain’s resume, there are some good things, and a lot of things that I don’t like. I also believe one’s character is important, beyond just a resume, and is included when applying for a job or any kind of position.

    As for voting for Obama because he can “create change”: I think those kinds of slogans are empty political “rhetoric” as you say, and that is not why I’m probably going to vote for him. Although, I do think he will “change” the way the world views the U.S. — for the better.

  • Steve

    Adam and Salty – To take your example Salty, don’t you know or work with people that are awesome on paper (not that I think McCain is), but in practice are the worst co-workers?!?! Either they show up late, are big jerks, steal from the kitty, cheat on their wife, etc. On the other hand, you might have a new person, say just out of school or changing professions that blows your mind both professionally and personally!
    My point is that to limit your opinion to the qualifications to simply “on paper” for one of the most important jobs in the world would be doing a great disservice and a poor decision making process.

  • Steve

    Oh, and Salty, why can’t we believe a person w/o a long resume? Isn’t this what you all call “faith”?!? 🙂

  • salt h2o

    Adam- what makes you think Obama is a person of character?

    Steve- I’d never hire simply off paper- I check references and I’d never hire on faith- I hire on results.

  • adam

    Salt-we can’t really know a candidates character, but we can certainly compare. What I do know so far, is McCain has a bad temper, pushes other senators when he gets upset, cheated on his wife, and was tortured for years, which almost undoubtedly left him scarred psychologically. Obama on the other hand, does not like to throw mud, does not have PTSD, anger management issues, and is still with his first wife. So by comparison, I’d say Obama’s character is more attractive to my vote.

  • Steve

    I have to agree with Adam there regarding character, not that surprises any of you! haha. But as for results, what has McCain accomplished that is so much better than Obama?!?! Plus, he has had 25+ more years to accomplish it!

  • salt h2o

    Adam,
    It sounds like you don’t know much about your candidate. Based on your criteria- I’d make a dang good candidate too. If that’s your premise on voting for Obama you may want to take a bit more time to get to know him.

    What do you know about his time in Chicago? What do you know about his time at Harvard?
    What do you know about how he got elected to the senate?

    Seriously, it seems like you and most people are voting for him because he ‘seems like a nice guy’ when in reality you don’t know much about him.

    Interesting CNN story about Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvROBLortBQ

  • adam

    I would vote for you. 🙂

    Thanks for the stirring questions, and the info. For what it’s worth I’m not voting for him because he “seems like a nice guy.” My points about his character here were only to compare him with McCain, the other choice, so I guess character is part of it, but principles matter more to me.

    I’m almost entirely against war, disagree with republicans on immigration (although I must say I agreed with McCain on it), believe in welfare although it needs a major overhaul, way better mental health coverage, lower taxes for people who make less, and equal rights for the lgbt community, to name a few areas. Granted, I’m not a registered democrat, and I don’t think Obama is a perfect candidate by any means, he beats McCain in my book.

  • salt h2o

    Democrats controll congress and controll the war- so it’s pretty much a moot point.

    McCain wins on immigration because he has actually put forth a plan, and done some work on it while in the senate.

    Welfare does need an overhaul- what steps has Obama taken to change welfare as a senator either in the state or in the senate?

    Lower taxes for people who make less? Again, what has Obama done here?

    What is it about Obama’s record that makes you think can or will do anything he’s promised?

    He’s running for president on ONE fact- ONE accomplishment and that is that he did not vote for the war.

    What else has he done? Aside from voting that babies that survive abortions should be left to die?

  • adam

    Just watched the video, and I have read that stuff already, thanks to FactCheck… which also pointed out today that Obama’s campaign is following suit in lies, which kinda proves your point of disregarding “commercials, rhetoric, and soundbites.” I don’t like it that he has joined in the fracas, but politicians have to hit back, apparently, or else they end up swiftboated.

    Regarding Ayers, he was protesting the Vietnam war, was he not? Philosophically speaking, if one believes a war is evil, is one not justified in taking extreme measures to stop it? Personally, I don’t agree with the stuff Ayers did in the 60’s, as responding to aggression with more aggression is not the answer.

    Honestly, these types of things make me like Obama more as I can relate to him–I place a high value on conversing with people who are very different than I am, and trying to understand each other.

    Then again, once someone has made up their minds, all further negative information is either ignored or explained away. There is obviously no way you would vote for Obama, despite any further info, and almost no way I would vote for McCain. I don’t feel as safe with him at the helm, I don’t think he will help America’s image with the world, and he would lead us into more wars.

  • Salt H2O

    2 things- You care about the poor and welfare but out of the 4 candidates the ones that gave the higest percentage of their income to the poor (and not by just a little) were the republicans.

    One of my favorite songs is “A little less conversation a little more action please”

    2- “There is no way you’d vote for Obama despite further info”

    That’s the problem! I’ve been waiting for ‘further info’ for months now!

    And I VOTED for him in the Primaries!

  • adam

    #10 – again, good questions.

    Your last sentence there proves my point in the last paragraph of #11, that we see what we want to see: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html

  • adam

    “I’ve been waiting for ‘further info’ for months now!” – lol, so you have still been considering him? 🙂

    “gave the higest percentage of their income to the poor (and not by just a little) were the republicans.”
    Good for them. I respect them greatly for that. Personal contributions are better than taxes, and if that covered it all, I would be all for abolishing taxes for social programs. And once again, I am not a democrat. I don’t like parties. I do however believe in certain ideas, and, although I may be off on this, believe that Obama fits those better than McCain, hence my voting preference this time.

  • Allie

    As a side note- Adam, if you lived in Utah would you feel more like picking a party?

    If I lived somewhere with out such a lopsided government, I’d be unaffiliated, or look at a third party.

  • adam

    Allie – perhaps, although it makes me feel quite uncomfortable being pinned down into categories, although to some extent it is unavoidable. I really enjoy the freedom of not being in a party when I talk to other people about politics, even if I still have some liberal ideals.

    I can see the point though of building up the smaller party in a place like Utah, or New York, etc. It is an admirable effort.

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